Southern California Club Xterra
Southern California Club Xterra => SCCX General Discussion => Topic started by: holymuchos on May 18, 2009, 07:17:48 PM
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Hey all,
I'm currently drawing up my 'dream' list of parts/equipment for the xterra, and found myself looking through the Xcursion Guidelines to make sure I'm including 'necessary' stuff, and had a few questions. Keep in mind that I'm a total offroad newbie (this Xterra being my first non-car), but I am the type of guy who likes/wants to be prepared.
1. Is FRS required and having a CB just an added bonus? (also can anyone point me to some literature on radios in general as I get easily confused with the different types of radios and their purpose)
2. What type of fire extinguisher do you normally pack? (A/B/C... mini, fullsize... do you strap it down in the trunk?)
3. How thick of a tow strap? (2in, 3in...) Length?
4. I don't want to skimp on the air compressor (I like buying something once and be done with it), so would anyone recommend a C02 solution like PowerTank? (http://powertank.com/products/sfID1/13/productID/26 (http://powertank.com/products/sfID1/13/productID/26))
5. Maps... do you all have physical USGS 1:24000 maps of the area? I have a garmin and was thinking about getting the digital TOPO maps loaded, anyone done this/recommend it?
6. Tents you recommend, or does everyone sleep in the X? I like to backpack (but haven't been out in a while and don't have my own tent....yet), so something lightweight that I could pack would be excellent.
and lastly...
7. Any general xcursion tips from the pros?
Thanks!
Philip
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Philip, I'll let others speak to most of these but for a tent I'd recommend the REI Quarter Dome T2 or T3. I do a lot of backpacking and the T2 is great for one person and the T3 for two. As for Xcursions though I've come to the conclusion it's easier for me to sleep in the truck.
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My thoughts on the matter.
1. FRS is used on all runs. Get one with the sub channels as we use the channel coinciding the the month (May = channel 5) and subchannel 24 (X is the 24th letter of the alphabet).
2. ABC fire extinguisher of whatever size you feel like packing.
3. I don't know about width but get one that is rated for at least twice the weight of the vehicle, loaded.
4. I have the Costco air compressor and it works great.
5. I carry a California topo atlas and sometimes maps of specific areas.
6. I have no advise on a tent. Depending on who is or isn't with me I either sleep in the back of the X or in a reasonably priced tent from Big 5. By the way, a full size air mattress fits nicely in the back of the X.
7. Have fun.
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Without knowing anything about you (e.g., you're the total outdoorsman or just getting started, going solo or with family, etc.), here are a few thoughts:
Start off simple. It's easy to spend a lot of $$ on stuff, and believe me you can spend a lot quickly. Being realistic about your needs will make getting started easier.
SCCX has used FRS all these years for the simple reasons that they are cheap, easily accessible to everyone and require no installation. CB radios are relaively inexpensive and many clubs use them, but they are limited in range. Ham radios require taking a modest licensing test and have much greater range and flexibility in use. All have their place. Many people have all of them and it's fun to learn about, install and use them.
Fire extinguishers come in many variations. I've got a small one I rigged to carry on the back of the headrest; got it from 4 Wheel parts. It's refillable. It's probably best to find one that's residue is minimally destructive or hazardous to use.
Get a good three inch tow strap. Do NOT get a cheap one or one with hooks. Tow straps work by stretching using a rubber band effect to slowly ease one forward and if a hook comes loose, it can come at you like a rocket. Also, if you have a tow hitch, I'd spend the $50 or so to get the shackle recovery mount so you have a safe rear recovery point. Very important.
I think a powertank for a first go round is overkill for several reasons. One, they are very costly both to purchase and to refill regularly. Two, they take up a lot of real estate and must be installed and/or stowed securely. Start with a simple compressor set-up. I ran a regular Pep Boys special I got on sale for around $40 for years. I know Frank just picked up a cheap plastic ammo box from bass pro for $10 so he can safely heave it in the X right after using -- they get very hot.
I've got a Garmin with the mapsource version of topos on it and it works great. Others can even use the Nat geo detailed topos. Or, you can get the nice state atlas that has the trails in it. Many of the forest service maps are available online for free. If you have the nat geo topo software, you can get the map paper and print out your own.
I either sleep in the X or am still using my coleman tent, which has worked great for years. It might be good to get a basic easy-to-use comfy tent when car camping and get a specialized one like Dan's for hiking. When sleeping in the tent, I switched from an air mattress to a thermorest type pad. I've found that the air matresses don't offer any warming insulation and I had to layer heavily over the mattress to keep in the heat. I'm more comfy now, pack less stuff, plus have more headroom and don't have to pack an air pump.
Join in on a run and you'll see everyone has a wide variety of gear. You can get some great ideas for effective gear, how to best pack it, what might work for you, etc.
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Welcome.
Here are a few more thoughts:
CO2 - I picked up a 10 lb tank early on, but found it does have certain drawbacks. The rig weighs about 28 pounds total, and is difficult to strap down because of size and shape. You certainly do want something that hard and heavy securely strapped when you're moving. Also, while the X may look big empty, it fills up real fast, especially if you're camping. I rarely carry mine anymore, it's just too big and bulky. I can carry a primary and backup 12v compressor in a lot less space, and the weight difference is noticeable too. I primarily use a Viair 400P portable compressor, it works well, but is a bit pricey. For about 1/4 the price you can get a copy from Harbor Freight, but there is a big difference in the build quality. If I were out alone I might not trust the HF version, but in a group where someone else could help in a pinch, it should be fine. As Bobby mentioned, they do get real hot, and putting them in the X right after using is asking to have something burned or melted unless you've got lots of free space. I just found a $10 plastic ammo can at Bass Pro that will hold one of these and allow it to cool (after I drill some holes in the box) safely. CO2 is fast, though, at least until the no-freeze regulator starts to freeze up. It's also annoying when you're close to the end of the tank, since you can't top them off. Whatever is left in the tank when you go to refill it is lost. You have to pay attention to the weight to know when it's getting low, the gauge won't tell you.
Tents - The X is pretty comfortable for 2 people. Many here use air mattresses, we use 2 closed cell foam pads each, and thick, cheap Coleman flannel sleeping bags. We've always got extra blankets around in case it gets colder. If you have a 2005 or newer there is a Rubbermaid Action Packer storage box that will allow you to extend the interior flat space to a little over 6'. It fits perfectly. Some things I have found that really make sleeping in the X comfortable are (a) Weathertech Vent Shades on the windows, so I can leave them cracked even in heavy wind, rain or snow and always have fresh air, (b) replaced the interior dome lights with red LED bulbs, and (c) a Raingler Interior Ceiling net to hold soft gear up overhead.
Fire Extinguisher - Strap it down, where ever it is. Also, if it's buried too deep in the back it might not be of any help.
Maps - I really like paper maps, it's a lot easier to see the big picture. Even the Auto Club maps have a lot of the trails we travel on them. The DeLorme Road and Recreation Atlases are great too. For places like Anza Borrego, Joshua Tree and DV there are specific maps that show all of the trails.
General Tips - like Mitch said: have fun.
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All excellent replies so far, thanks!
Apologies if I came across as an overzealous noob; it was not my intention. Though I do sometimes jump in head first (this might be my downfall ;D). This just seems so EXCITING and I'm really pumped!
Ok, so FRS it is ... and I was looking at some motorola units just now (nice and cheap, yay).
I mentioned the C02 solution just to see if anyone had experience with them vs the 12v style compressors. If many of you are happy with the little compressors, then obviously that gives me more peace of mind. (good tip with the ammo can by the way)
@BobbyB I love the outdoors (hiking/backpacking/camping/etc), but am new to offroading. No family yet, just me.
Air matress in the back of the X? GENIOUS!
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I dont even have an Xterra haha but ill chime in.
3. How thick of a tow strap? (2in, 3in...) Length?
2 or 3 inch is good 20' or 30' feet( I have both and use both all the time) make sure you have solid recovery points.
D ring shackle in the tow hitch is always a good way to go. $25 ish a 4wheel parts.
pick up a few extra D rings.... they come in handy. A pair or 2 of gloves.
4. I don't want to skimp on the air compressor (I like buying something once and be done with it), so would anyone recommend a C02 solution like PowerTank?
Powertank is way over priced IMO.. I picked up a 10 lb tank from (www.thebeveragefactory.com) for $105 shipped, spent $40 bucks on the regulator and $35 on the mount at poly performance.then another $15 at harbor freight for the air hose and nozzle/gauge. Then to get it filled it was like $15... I just fill it up every few trips.
so just about $200 you can have a Co2 set up.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3619/3301607383_e0d155a3e7_b.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3367/3301604773_fa18245a62_b.jpg)
6. Tents you recommend, or does everyone sleep in the X? I like to backpack (but haven't been out in a while and don't have my own tent....yet), so something lightweight that I could pack would be excellent.
If its just you sleep in the truck with some Foam. or score a tent cot they are kinda bulky but you can just throw it up on the roof with a strap. Sleeping on the ground sucks...
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2057/2318141970_87af3d6628_o.jpg)
Or if you come up on a deal... Roof top tent. its a pretty solid set up.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3319/3341047433_f3a8b3a507_o.jpg)
Ill shut up now
E
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Excellent discussion! Perhaps this would serve as a valuable tool for future reference... a FAQ to complement the Xcursion info. Sticky?
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Elliot has some good comments (as does everyone else here). No need to apologize, we appreciate your input (and photos too).
- I've noticed that the price of CO2 has gone way up, last time I filled my tank it was over $30. There was some sort of BS "global warming" tax included. At least in San Diego it's getting harder to find places to fill the tanks too.
- Must be nice to have a solid sheet of metal to mount the tank to in the back of the Rover. I like that. In the 05+ Xterras it's just plastic back there. You really would need some serious reinforcing (in my opinion) to mount a tank that heavy in the back of an X. I know folks who have done it, but they take up a lot of room and I'm not sure how secure they are.
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Elliot has some good comments (as does everyone else here). No need to apologize, we appreciate your input (and photos too).
- I've noticed that the price of CO2 has gone way up, last time I filled my tank it was over $30. There was some sort of BS "global warming" tax included. At least in San Diego it's getting harder to find places to fill the tanks too.
- Must be nice to have a solid sheet of metal to mount the tank to in the back of the Rover. I like that. In the 05+ Xterras it's just plastic back there. You really would need some serious reinforcing (in my opinion) to mount a tank that heavy in the back of an X. I know folks who have done it, but they take up a lot of room and I'm not sure how secure they are.
haha Thanks Frank!
I figured you'd just give the rover guy the boot haha.
$30 That seems a little excessive but still that's not really that bad you can fill 25ish tires with a 10lb tank from 15-35psi. If the tank costs $30 to fill So $1.2 a tire so $4.80 a trip lets say you go on 10 trips a year that you air down for your looking at just about $50 a year. It will take you 4 years to make your Viair pay for itself. (I was looking at one that was like $400) Not to mention what if you battery is dead Vivar no worky.
What if you want to use the tank in another vehicle/ or further away from the vehicle than the cord reaches?
CO2 you can simply pop the latch and its mobile...But to answer teh question whats better CO2 or Compressor. I think having both is the best way haha
Any welding shop should be able to fill the tank for you....I think our place only charges $15 so that puts me at $24 a year which would be 8 years to recover the cash on the Viair.
With enough screws in hard plastic it should hold... oooooor cut the plastic till you hit sheet metal.... its under there. just use a dremel tool and you should be able to make it pretty clean looking.
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Great advice everyone. Can I just "X2" everything ;D
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Nice CO2 build Elliot.
If anyone goes the tank route, I can't stress enough that it is well secured and in good working order. Remember you're stowing it in an enclosed vehicle that is subject to vast temp fluctuations. Make sure the valves are good and not pointing at your head.
That actually goes for all gear. It will take you a bit to get your storage solution figured out to your liking. Rubbermaid containers holding your food that sit in the back are great and all until you hit a big rock on a steep descent and get nailed in the head by a flying can of baked beans (don't ask). I packed advil after that too.
As far as gear redundancy, it's all about what you're comfortable with. A small regular compressor is a good start and makes you more self sufficient. But that being said, if it craps out on a run, this crowd will probably bombard you with offers to help with other compressors, CO2, on-board air, etc.
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I'm loving the input guys. This is exactly what I was hoping for!
So much to consider before even setting foot out on the trails; guess I have my work cut out for me :)
A bit off topic, but my first real upgrade will probably be shrockworks sliders. Would you guys recommend the powdercoating option Jim does, or opt for primer+rattle can for easy touch-ups?
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Best primary upgrade! You're heading the right direction.
As far as powdercoating, the powdercoat job is really clean and durable. I think it's worth the money. But if you choose to rattle-can it, you may go that route too. Just make sure you clean it good, primer and apply several coats afterwards... re-touch when necessary. Either way, you can't go wrong.
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One thought about your less expensive compressors. I have one and was less then impressed with the smaller than standard size hose components. A trip to Home Depot will get you what you need to upgrade to standard size hose fittings.
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1. Is FRS required and having a CB just an added bonus? (also can anyone point me to some literature on radios in general as I get easily confused with the different types of radios and their purpose)
Yes - FRS is required. Amateur (ham) radio is a very nice to have.
2. What type of fire extinguisher do you normally pack? (A/B/C... mini, fullsize... do you strap it down in the trunk?)
None - only a shovel and water.
3. How thick of a tow strap? (2in, 3in...) Length?
I have a big round rope rated for way more than the truck weighs and a big tow strap too - both about 20 feet long.
4. I don't want to skimp on the air compressor (I like buying something once and be done with it), so would anyone recommend a C02 solution like PowerTank? (http://powertank.com/products/sfID1/13/productID/26 (http://powertank.com/products/sfID1/13/productID/26))
I went with the Viair $150 compressor. I make about ten of the twelve yearly runs and the compressor works well enough. It's small but it kicks butt and I often end up filling six to ten tires a trip. The less expensive ones put out less air and can "thermal" in the heat. I store mine in a steel .50 ammo can - that heat Frank mentioned can burn your camping gear.
5. Maps... do you all have physical USGS 1:24000 maps of the area? I have a garmin and was thinking about getting the digital TOPO maps loaded, anyone done this/recommend it?
I have the topo maps for my Garmin nuvi and recommend against them. They're simply not detailed enough. I did find the maps on a personal computer far more detailed and use a Dell Mini-9 and an Earthlink GPS.
6. Tents you recommend, or does everyone sleep in the X? I like to backpack (but haven't been out in a while and don't have my own tent....yet), so something lightweight that I could pack would be excellent.
I have two tents - one for summer and one for the winter. The summer one is a bigger/heavier one with lots more open mess net for cooling. The winter one is smaller and more streamlined to resist the winter wind storms. Being smaller it holds the heat a bit better. I always tent camp and more important than the tent is the air bed and sleeping bag. I have two pairs of sleeping bags - summer lightweight cotton and heavy duty hollo-fill type big bags.
and lastly...
7. Any general xcursion tips from the pros?
I also have two barbeque grills - a propane one for the summer restrictions and a charcoal one for the fine winter tastes. I like a hot lunch so we have a little $25 12 VDC oven to heat up sandwiches or hotpockets. Nice an yummy on a cold winter mountain run. I always carry ten gallons of water burning though about five of it between hot showers, washing dishes and dogs, and putting out the fires - the remaining five gallons is a comfort/safety reserve. On the longer runs I'll bring five gallons of gas and dump it in on Sunday morning for a bit of a margin.
And finally two last tips - if Brian says it's "stock friendly" it's likely not, and on the trail don't follow his line without looking very carefully. ;)
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I can't speak for those that have been in the club longer or gone on a lot of Xcursions, but I'll throw in what I carry in my X. I've got the compressor from costco mentioned above... its great. Also, i use a coleman tent, same one for years, definitely can't go wrong with one. I cary two straps, both rated for more than the X, also a high lift and shovel. Maps for the area I'm in are a must, and a car GPS and hand held GPS. Currently carry a small fire extinguisher. As for other things and tips, an ax, saw, survival kit (mine is rediculous), MRE's, water, tools, emergency equip., CB, FRS (at times), rope, toilet (can come inhandy after carne asade burritos), flashlights, compass (know how to use it) and other misc. outdoor neccesities. And other items I'm sure I forgot...
Don't forget TP. ;D
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I'm loving the input guys. This is exactly what I was hoping for!
So much to consider before even setting foot out on the trails; guess I have my work cut out for me :)
Setting foot out on the trail is the most important part.
Just start out with the basics.
Radio
basic tools to fix vehicle
Water
Food.
Let someone know where you are going and when you plan to be back.
and go have fun.
I find myself worrying/spending $ on upgrading/ modding my truck. Instead of just running what I have and getting out there.
E
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I second that. I do this and carry a strap at a minimum so I can help pull myself or someone else out if needed. I carry the addtion of a jack on harder stuff or trails I dont know well enough. But the radio is a critical asset to let some know you are having trouble unless you are bobby of course.
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Those FRS radios ought to work fine - the privacy codes are what you need. Do not pay any attention to the range claims - they're bogus.
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Those FRS radios ought to work fine - the privacy codes are what you need. Do not pay any attention to the range claims - they're bogus.
aggreed , to many variables tobe able to make a claim. Like weather, height, etc..
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I saw what looked like some good ones at Costco. Can't remember the brand; whatever the main one is. But I almost picked up the same ones at REI, only costco, for the same price, gave you three instead of two. The reason why they looked good to me was that they came with a car charger.
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I saw what looked like some good ones at Costco. Can't remember the brand; whatever the main one is. But I almost picked up the same ones at REI, only costco, for the same price, gave you three instead of two. The reason why they looked good to me was that they came with a car charger.
I picked up the 3-pack of Motorola radios at Costco recently.
- The volume on them is much better than the other Motorola's that I have. I can actually hear these.
- They feel a little bit lighter and less sturdy than my older ones, but they are probably just as good.
- When I plugged in the car charger towards the end of a long day of use I noticed 2 things that bothered me: (1) you could not use the radio while plugged in, and (2) it immediately reverted back to Ch 1, subcode 1. Both of those were not what I expected or wanted to see.
Overall though, they seem to work okay. There are probably less expensive options out there. As for the refurbished ones for $80+ that someone mentioned, you may as well get the 3-pack from Costco if you're going to spend that much.