Topic: New rear shocks: advice wanted

[steve c]

After doing the Mojave Road last week, I've come to the conclusion that the Bilstein shocks that came with my PRG advanced kit are getting really tired.  I recently upgraded the rear leafs to some Deaver packs which are awesome, but I think some new shocks would be great.

Soulcontrol told me I should go with King piggy back shocks and relocate the mounts on the axle.  Has anyone done this?

Where would you get that done? 

School me a little on rear suspension for the 2nd gen x. 

For fun and because everyone likes pictures, I've attached my current set up.

New rear shocks: advice wanted

New rear shocks: advice wanted

New rear shocks: advice wanted

[knightrider]

biggest issue with xterras is the lack of space we have under the body (this is one reason the bottom of our shocks mount so far below the axle), its not as easy to cut out the floor (well it is but who wants to do that) and run a shock tower like the frontier, although the top mounting points can be moved up a little bit to gain a small amount of space, you want to try and maintain the same angle so you dont have to start calculating for the change in geometry when ordering shock valving.

  im guessing that your shocks are limiting the amount of travel you are getting, probably fully extended in those pictures(along with your brake lines, you NEED to fix those with extended lines or the bracket that prg sells), while the springs could probably flex more if the shocks were disconnected (and your brake lines were extended or rotated).  that said, finding a shock that will have a compressed length short enough to fit into the small area we have but extend far enough/ have enough travel to not limit travel is a chore.  this can only be answered by measuring your truck with your setup, you need to measure your truck with no shocks, and figure out what your measurements are for max droop and max bump.  then its time to find a shock that fits the dimensions you have, do note that you can lower the bumpstop with spacers to adjust your max bump.

some measurements i have gotten from the internet and on my own from shocks ive owned.
  
bilstein 7100 shocks, they make a 10" travel short body that is 14" compressed and 24" extended, a 12" travel short body that is 16" compressed to 27.5" extended and 14" travel that is 19.5"/34", Normal body 7100 are 16"/25.5" for 10" travel and 19.5"/31" for 12" travel  

king 2.0 10" travel, which is 17"/27", king 2.0 12" travel, 19.5"/31.5" king frontier OEM rear shocks are 13.5"/21.5", King Titan OEM rear shocks are 16"/24.5".  

radflo doesnt post the lengths of their shocks online, which is dumb but from my own garage the emulsion shocks for 1-3" of lift are 15"/21" and the extended remote res version for 3-5" is 16"/23".  

i dont know what the lengths are for the bilstein shocks that prg sells but from what ive seen other people post is they are around 16"/22.5" for the 3-5" lift, i dont know the length on the 1-3" ones greg sells.

imo they are all great shocks, just need to find which ones fit in the space you need, all but the oem shocks and the ones greg sells will require you to pick a valving option on the shocks since they are universal, greg may be the best to talk to about this because he is a shock valving guy who developed all the radflo valving

[steve c]

Now I owe you like 7 burritos.

I will ask more when I'm back from work.

Thanks a million, Jordan. 

[CAWoody]

Be careful with the 10"+ travel shocks, I had a set of the Fox 10" and found them to be too long and bottomed out all the time.  When I put a trailer on I had no suspension.  I have the Deaver 2 leaf Add-a-Leaf and shackles and switched to the Fox 2.5 8" travel and they work great.  If you want to try the length, I still have the 10's, they just need bushings.  Let me know.

[knightrider]

yes you really dont want the shocks to bottom or top out really, ideally if your shocks are too long, you should extend your bumpstops to hit before the shocks bottom out, also use limit straps if your shocks are too short and top out at full droop, but thats only a problem really if your doing high speed, topping out the shocks at low speed crawling wont really hurt them.

[steve c]

Thanks for the replies guys.

So first things first, my brake lines look a little tight.  A lot tight actually.  Better to go with extended lines or that bracket you mentioned Jordan?
I couldn't locate either on PRGs website, but I'm sure they're there.

Second, Jordan how do I change brake lines?  How many burritos does that cost?

Third, I need to get my truck on a lift and take out the rear shocks.  Which measurements do I need to obtain?  From where to where I guess is what i'm asking. 

The reason all of this came up in the first place was because on the Mojave Road, I noticed my rear suspension not really keeping up with the front.  Kind of bouncy and not awesome.  Does that help at all? 

[knightrider]

yes  brake lines are too tight at full droop on the lift.  the bracket greg sells is just a 90 degree bracket with 2 bolts and nuts, the bracket mounts to where the brake lines are now, and the brake lines mount to the  bracket, the rubber line is basically just rotated so it points straight up instead of forward, i dont think he has it on his site, but it came with my lift kit.  i upgraded to longer lines after i tore one of my brake lines.  the bracket is easier because you just loosen the line a little to allow you to rotate the block 90 and retighten, so no need to bleed, if you replace the lines you need to then bleed the brakes since you will lose alot of fluid replacing the lines.
here is a picture that has the bracket from when i installed my lift, its in the lower right corner, next to the 2 bolts and nuts.


the bracket is a 10min job, aka 1 burrito but there is a 4 burrito minimum  new brake lines takes an hour or 2 including bleeding, aka 6 burritos.

no lift needed to replace shocks, hell you dont even need to lift the truck off the ground but it does make it a little easier with just a floor jack.

what you need to measure for new shocks, you basically need to measure the distance from both the shock mounting points to get a maximum length and a minimum length between the shock mounting points with the axle at its extreme.  simple terms: you need to do the flex test but without shocks installed.
measure the length between the shock mounts on the drivers side shock

New rear shocks: advice wanted

measure the length between the passenger side shock mounts

New rear shocks: advice wanted

imo the bilstein 5125 are ok shocks, but no where on the same level of dampening and awesomeness of radflo/king/bilstein 7100, not to mention all of these are rebuildable and tuneable to your preferences, so you'll never need to buy another shock again, just get them rebuilt and change the dampening if it doesnt suit you.

[Ghost65]

I had a similar experience on TMR last trip Steve...bottoming out the suspension on the whoop de doo's.

Frankly, I was surprised because my extended Bilsteins and Alcan springs (I thought) were set up to stop this. 

Jordan:  doesn't spring rate (leafs) and weight carried in the vehicle have some input into "bottoming out?"

We def carried a few more than 7 burritos last trip  but I felt that the suspension should perform better than it did. 

I don't think this is a shock issue Steve...I am more curious to hear what spring rate the Deaver pack is, and how much water/gasoline/stuff you had (the weight) loaded in your X for the trip, and the impact that has on the ride?

My Alcans were set up at a 4" arch with a 450 lb. spring rate.  They provide excellent articulation in the bumpy stuff,  BUT seem to be soft when carrying a travel load and hitting the bumps.

[Ghost65]

PS:  IMO, a rebuildable shock is nice...except for the 4-5 day "down time" while they are at Radflo getting rebuilt for your DD...as opposed to slapping on a new set and GTG.

[steve c]

I had a similar experience on TMR last trip Steve...bottoming out the suspension on the whoop de doo's.

Frankly, I was surprised because my extended Bilsteins and Alcan springs (I thought) were set up to stop this. 

Jordan:  doesn't spring rate (leafs) and weight carried in the vehicle have some input into "bottoming out?"

We def carried a few more than 7 burritos last trip  but I felt that the suspension should perform better than it did. 

I don't think this is a shock issue Steve...I am more curious to hear what spring rate the Deaver pack is, and how much water/gasoline/stuff you had (the weight) loaded in your X for the trip, and the impact that has on the ride?

My Alcans were set up at a 4" arch with a 450 lb. spring rate.  They provide excellent articulation in the bumpy stuff,  BUT seem to be soft when carrying a travel load and hitting the bumps.

John, my issue wasn't so much bottoming out, all though some careless line choices did result in some bump stop contact, but rather a bouncy feeling like the shocks weren't dampening enough.  Like when your rebound is way too fast on your MTB.  Frankly, my radflo coilovers are a little fast, too. 

My gear list/load was
10 gallons of gas on the hefty bumper + nearly full onboard gas tank
Spare BFG AT on stock S wheel on rear bumper
Highlift on rear bumper
14 gallons of water located almost directly over the rear axle
Camping gear; cooking, sleeping, recovery etc. located mostly in the rear cargo area with some overflow into the middle area
Cooler with ice pretty much full
3 bundles of firewood on the roof
My large self and my mini buddy 

My Deavers are of the +450 variety designed to be a used on the lowest hole on the PRG shackles and still maintain my ride height.  This results in them being a little less arched which from what I was told is a benefit in our application due to the length of the leafs. 

[ultrapc40]

Are you hitting your bump stops. Those tend to make things bouncy. We are selling some awesome bumps for the dodge guys and everyone loves them.





We can see if it can get put on the X

[knightrider]

Jordan:  doesn't spring rate (leafs) and weight carried in the vehicle have some input into "bottoming out?"

spring rate has everything to do with bottoming out, the shocks do nothing but dampen the bounce of the springs, so if its bouncy, you dont have enough shock dampening. the 5125 bilstein are available in different valving, i dont know which valving prg/nisstec are selling people but a quick google of the part number should tell you which valving you have. this catalog has all the available options for length/valving possible.

so if bottoming out is your problem, and it will be with xterras because we do not have enough travel in the rear.

i run timbren bumpstops front and rear and its awesome, they do not prevent bottoming out but they soften the harsh bottoming out of the stock bumpstop so you dont even feel it.  the timbrens are also designed to support extra weight so even though i have stock springs with AAL and shackles, if i load my truck down, it doesnt have the look of sitting on the stock bumpstops.  what ultrapc posted is similar to the timbrens.  

pic of my timbrens in rear

you will notice my shock(radflo emulsion for 1-3", 15"/21" length) is fully compressed, after this picture i installed a 1" spacer(included with timbrens) on top of the timbren to prevent the shock from fully compressing as easily.

[knightrider]

PS:  IMO, a rebuildable shock is nice...except for the 4-5 day "down time" while they are at Radflo getting rebuilt for your DD...as opposed to slapping on a new set and GTG.

this is why a spare set of shocks is nice to keep around, swap the old bilsteins on while the radflo/fox/king/7100 are in the shop.  luckily for us, bilstein is here in san diego, scripps poway to be exact, and radflo/king are up in LA so quick turn around

[knightrider]

Are you hitting your bump stops. Those tend to make things bouncy. We are selling some awesome bumps for the dodge guys and everyone loves them.





We can see if it can get put on the X

whats the eye to eye measurement on the bracket?

[knightrider]

also for a cheaper alternative for the front, i found these.  http://wheelersoffroad.com/product/miscellaneous-suspension-parts-24936/wheelers-front-superbump-bumpstop-set/

i have not tried them as i forked out the money for the timbrens but these look like they would work the same for a quarter the price.

so depending on if ultrapc's bumps will work for the rear, and the cost of those. you could have a decent alternative to timbrens for alot cheaper. now back to shocks

/end threadjack