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Author Topic: Winches...  (Read 6870 times)

ShockBlue_Scott

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Winches...
« on: March 06, 2016, 06:02:13 PM »
I am looking at welding up a steel plate between the frame horns on the Xterra, adding a winch then building a bumper around the winch. But I am here to ask what is everyone's opinion of the following two winches.

http://www.harborfreight.com/12000-lb-Off-Road-Vehicle-Electric-Winch-with-Automatic-Load-Holding-Brake-61889.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiODQ2NjM4NjQiLCJza3UiOiI2MTg4OSIsImlzIjoiMzE5Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p%0D%0AZCI6IjEwNTIzIn0%3D%0D%0A

http://www.engousa.com/p/model-epf12000s/electric-winches?pp=12

Here is another winch I am looking at...

http://www.metaltech4x4.com/p-489-engo-winch-model-e10000s.aspx

Would I be fine with a 10k or better off with 12k?

I am open to suggestions, mind you I am on a budget.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 06:04:41 PM by ShockBlue_Scott »
Scott
2002 Nissan Xterra Shock Blue
City Heights, San Diego CA

Ghost65

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016, 07:34:07 AM »
Scott...ENGO's are tough to beat on value and price.

I would personally stay away from the HF versions...just too cheap to rely on during "crunch time."

Also, keep in mind with the correct recovery gear (snatch block, tree saver, quality d-rings) you can effectively increase (double) your pulling power on an 8,000 lb winch.

I'm sure others will chime in with advice...

Good luck, and keep us posted.  :)
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JFanaselle

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2016, 09:10:18 AM »
I second the Engo over the Harbor Freight, but I'll make an even different recommendation for the new Smittybilt X20 series.

I ran a Harbor Freight winch for about a year. I read all of the negative comments online from people who said Harbor Freight makes junk, but I also read a dozen articles from reputable publications saying it was one of the best values you could buy, so I decided to give it a shot. It worked fine when I installed it and spooled the cable, and I re-spooled once every few months just to keep my skills sharp and make sure it worked fine. The first time I tried to use it in the field, it failed. I had unspooled the full cable and hooked it to some tree branches that had fallen and blocked a major roadway following a freak snow storm, and was disappointed to get just a "click" when I tried to engage it. I had to roll the steel cable up into a big circle by hand and tie it down to the roof rack, and it was still connected to the winch. It ended up damaging the paint on my hood, and I had to limp home with my tail between my legs after I offered (and failed) to be the hero for a bunch of stranded motorists.

I diagnosed the problem as a bad solenoid, and was frustrated to discover that I couldn't order the part from Harbor Freight at all. Even their parts hotline was like "nope, you just need go buy a whole new winch." I managed to find an electrical supplier that had the right solenoid, but they were in England and I ended up spending almost $100 between the part and shipping. I installed the new solenoid and everything worked correctly, and wrote the whole experience off as a fluke.

Fast forward about 5 months when I tried to use the winch up on 2N02 with the group to help recover an old junk car on the trail. I unspooled the synthetic line (I had since upgraded from steel to synthetic) only to be frustrated with the same "click" and no action. I had to roll the synthetic line up by hand and throw it under my hood for the remainder of the trip, and diagnosed the issue as ANOTHER bad solenoid as soon as I got home. This time, I chose to remove the entire winch and threw the whole thing in the garbage. I literally only tried to use it twice, and it didn't work both times. Biggest waste of $400 ever.

I've since replaced it with a Smittybilt X20 10,000, which can be had for $399.99. I actually had a 10% off coupon for 4 Wheel Parts and managed to get it for $360 (they'll probably be running some sweet deals this Saturday the 12th, which is their annual 1 day sale date). This is an amazing winch for the price. It's completely waterproof, has a very high speed gear box (ALMOST too fast, but it's just perfect), comes with wired/wireless remote, and is very affordable. I purchased the steel cable version and swapped it out for the synthetic line I already had, but you can purchase it with a synthetic line already installed for $150 more.

Toro

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2016, 09:31:17 AM »
I run an Engo 12k. It's seen A LOT of use.
  Love it!

Riz98

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2016, 10:42:37 AM »
After reading through the winch article on the Engo link I would go with that one.  They put all those winches through some tough tests and the Engo went through all of them without failing.  Great price also. 

ShockBlue_Scott

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 06:48:52 AM »
Thank you everyone for your input. I was actually leaning towards the Engo winch, but wanted everyone's opinion on other options.

I just watched a video of how to work a snatch block, but how does it multiple the pulling load of your winch? Is it due to the fact you have 2 cables pulling one object?

Is it worth it to get a winch with a synthetic line vice a steel cable?

Would you also recommend a double battery setup for something like this?

« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 07:04:22 AM by ShockBlue_Scott »
Scott
2002 Nissan Xterra Shock Blue
City Heights, San Diego CA

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2016, 07:26:59 AM »
Scott, please check this out:  Pirate 4x4 Recovery Bible

This article explains it all (recovery principles) in depth.


Sent from Cygnus X-1
KD6DCI

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ShockBlue_Scott

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2016, 08:39:07 AM »
Scott, please check this out:  Pirate 4x4 Recovery Bible

This article explains it all (recovery principles) in depth.


Sent from Cygnus X-1

Thank you GeoYota
Scott
2002 Nissan Xterra Shock Blue
City Heights, San Diego CA

JFanaselle

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2016, 10:28:15 AM »
I just watched a video of how to work a snatch block, but how does it multiple the pulling load of your winch? Is it due to the fact you have 2 cables pulling one object?

It's physics. :D A pulley is a simple machine, which allows you to multiply forces (other simple machines are a lever, a wedge, a wheel, a screw, etc). When you use a pulley, the force is magnified in a way similar to a lever. Generally speaking, for every pulley that is added to a load, you cut the necessary lifting or pulling force in half.

http://www.explainthatstuff.com/pulleys.html
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 10:30:55 AM by JFanaselle »

ShockBlue_Scott

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2016, 08:16:37 PM »
It's physics. :D A pulley is a simple machine, which allows you to multiply forces (other simple machines are a lever, a wedge, a wheel, a screw, etc). When you use a pulley, the force is magnified in a way similar to a lever. Generally speaking, for every pulley that is added to a load, you cut the necessary lifting or pulling force in half.

http://www.explainthatstuff.com/pulleys.html

Sweet, I will check that link out here shortly.

What is a good thickness for the winch plate?
Scott
2002 Nissan Xterra Shock Blue
City Heights, San Diego CA

JFanaselle

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2016, 06:21:04 AM »
Sweet, I will check that link out here shortly.

No need to check it out really. Just a free science lesson. :)

Ghost65

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2016, 07:19:28 AM »
I just like to have one so I can say, "Hey, grab my snatch block."


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KD6DCI

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ShockBlue_Scott

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2016, 09:27:44 PM »
What are some Pros/Cons of synthetic vs wire rope?

Also for a winch plate what thickness is best for a winch? Ive seen 3/16 or even 1/4 recommended

Scott
2002 Nissan Xterra Shock Blue
City Heights, San Diego CA

JFanaselle

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Re: Winches...
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2016, 10:50:45 PM »
Shrockworks bumpers use 1/4" thick steel for the winch mounting plate and bumper core/brackets, and 3/16" steel for the remainder of the bumper. I think my Calmini front bumper uses 3/8" thick steel for the winch plate.

I can give you a few pros and cons of synthetic vs. steel winch lines:

Synthetic Pros:
1) Significant weight reduction vs steel
2) Flexible, easy to hold, use and manage
3) Higher breaking strength vs. steel with the same diameter (I know it seems backwards, but a 3/8" synthetic line will usually have a breaking strenght of around 18k-20k, and a 3/8" steel line will usually have a breaking strength around 12k-14k)
4) Low maintenance (pretty much just need to keep it clean)
5) will never rust
6) lower risk of injury should it break during a recovery (you should always be dampening the line anyway with a jacket or floormat or something, but synthetic lines don't build/store energy like steel lines)

Synthetic Cons:
1) High cost
2) Damages easier than steel from abrasion (rubbing against a rock will damage synthetic worse than steel, for example)
3) Will deteriorate and weaken from prolonged UV exposure (if the winch is mounted in a way that is exposed to the sun, you should cover it)

Steel Pros:
1) Low cost
2) Durability against damage from abrasion or rubbing against sharp objects
3) Holds up fine in the sun

Steel Cons:
1) Heavy - adds even more weight to your rig
2) not flexible, harder to work with
3) requires some maintenance from time to time (light coat of lubrication, stretching/re-winding, etc)
4) can rust if not properly maintained
5) higher risk of injury or damage if the line breaks during recovery (steel will hold energy when under tension, and will snap like a rubber band - you should always dampen the line during a recovery).

I'm sure there are many more that I'm not thinking of, but these are some of the most commonly stated pros and cons.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 10:59:12 PM by JFanaselle »

 


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